In the votes we just had, 16 players got selected
In the first ever Hall of Fame ballot, 50 players were put on the ballot. Eight of them never became Hall of Famers. The rest did. There was no defined rules for who could be put on the ballot yet and some players were still playing. End of their careers, but still playing. Babe Ruth had retired the year before. All five people actually elected were inner circle, no doubt Hall of Famers. Many of them were not and needed a lot longer to get elected.
What I’m saying is I understand why this became a very stingy group, probably crafting a Hall of Fame smaller than most self-proclaimed small Hall guys. If we repeated this feature more, fringier guys would look better just not being by no doubt Hall of Famers. The standards would get lower, because they pretty much would have to get lower.
On the 13th ballot, George Brett (80+ WAR), Steve Carlton (90+ WAR), Nap Lajoie (100+ WAR), Pedro Martinez, Phil Niekro (78 fWAR, but 97 bWAR), and Tris Speaker (130+ WAR!) were all elected. Two “fringe” guys made it, which I put it quotes because nobody really calls them fringe. Bob Feller, who only had 60+ WAR, because he missed almost four seasons to World War II. So not fringe in context. And Dennis Eckersley, who certainly is actually fringe (hot take?), and probably got a “played for the Cardinals” bump.
Dick Allen did not make it, and he’ll probably make the Hall one day. Vladmir Guerrero didn’t and he did make the Hall (I actually support you guys on this one). Joe Gordon should have made it, but didn’t, although to be fair, he retired in 1950 and got elected in 2009, so you guys certainly aren’t unique in underrating him. (60 WAR while missing three seasons right in his prime – dude ain’t even fringe). Eppa Rixey might not be a deserving Hall of Famer, but he is closer than 17.9% of the vote! I’m actually surprised Keith Hernandez only got 53.6%. No Cardinal bump for him, unless he’s being penalized for a bump.
That was last Monday’s ballot. Thursday’s ballot is similar. Three players got 100% of the vote! Although to be fair those players are Walter Johnson (166.9 bWAR), Stan Musial (125+ WAR), and Brooks Robinson (78+ WAR). Frankie Frisch (70+ WAR), Roberto Clemente (80+ WAR) and Tom Glavine (80.7 bWAR) also had no issues. Ryne Sandberg (67.9 bWAR) and Duke Snider (63+ WAR) snuck in, and I’m always curious what separates the 60 WAR guys who get votes from the ones who don’t.
Nobody else came close, including Hall of Famers Red Faber, Catfish Hunter, Jim Rice, and Chuck Klein. Since this is the last vote, I’m going to share the position results in a different way than I have in the past. First, I will share real life Hall of Famers, and I will cross out the guys who you didn’t vote in. Then I’ll list who you did vote in. I italicized the players who needed a veteran’s committee to elect them, basically the writers agreed with you they were not Hall of Famers.
Catcher – Yogi Berra, Roger Bresnahan, Roy Campanella, Gary Carter, Mickey Cochrane, Bill Dickey, Buck Ewing, Rick Ferrell, Carlton Fisk, Gabby Hartnett, Ernie Lombardi, Joe Mauer, Mike Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez, Ray Schalk, Ted Simmons
I would say Bill Dickey deserves to be in – he had a 3.9 fWAR year, went off to World War II, returned at 39-years-old and had a 0.8 fWAR season in 156 plate appearances. He would most likely get to 60 WAR if not for World War II which for a catcher is kind of automatic for me. Cochrane and Mauer are tougher for similar reasons. Both had head injuries. Mauer’s forced him to move to 1B which tanked his career WAR and Cochrane forced him to retire at the top of his game at 35. None of these omissions are egregious to me. The rest are kind of weak Hall of Famers.
VEB Catchers – Yogi Berra, Roy Campanella, Gary Carter, Carlton Fisk, Mike Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez, Ted Simmons (7)
Only Ted Simmons was elected via the Veteran’s Committee of this group, and I suspect it’ll be a trend that a lot of the weaker Hall of Famers were Veterans Committee. It really was a good idea, and some egregious misses have been corrected, but on the whole I’ll also say it significantly weakened the Hall’s standards.
1st Base – Jeff Bagwell, Jim Bottomley, Orlando Cepeda, Frank Chance, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Hank Greenberg, Todd Helton, Gil Hodges, George Kelly, Harmon Killebrew, Willie McCovey, Fred McGriff, Johnny Mize, Eddie Murray, Tony Perez, George Sisler, Bill Terry, Frank Thomas, Jim Thome.
Apparently, there are no catchers in the Hall who played in the 1800s which is why I’m telling you now that 1800 players are not listed as the Hall of Famers cause you never voted on them. Same for Negro League players. Mize is the rare excellent Veterans Committee pick. Not electing Hank Greenberg (no doubt Hall of Famer who missed three seasons to war, with a 166 wRC+ as soon as he returned) is the only real “wait how did you miss this guy?” for me.
VEB 1B – Jeff Bagwell, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Harmon Killebrew, Willie McCovey, MARK MCGWIRE, Johnny Mize, Eddie Murray, Frank Thomas, Jim Thome (10)
First base has been overrepresented in the Hall, so I kind of appreciate a purging on this one. Hank Greenberg got screwed though! Pay attention to the missing years folks! He’d have 70+ WAR if not for World War II. Also, VEB voted in a non-Hall of Famer! Mark McGwire did in fact make the cut. I’m curious – cause I don’t remember – if there’s any non-Cardinals who didn’t make the Hall who you guys voted in. I know there’s another Cardinal.
2nd base – Roberto Alomar, Craig Biggio, Rod Carew, Eddie Collins, Bobby Doer, Johnny Evers, Nellie Fox, Frankie Frisch, Charlie Gehringer, Joe Gordon, Billy Herman, Rogers Hornsby, Nap Lajoie, Tony Lazzeri, Bill Mazeroski, Joe Morgan, Jackie Robinson, Ryne Sandberg, Red Schoendienst
There is one huge miss, probably the biggest miss in this entire experiment. Eddie Collins did not get voted in. Nobody who voted for him watched him play, so it’s on some level understandable, but the numbers are the numbers. Collins had 120 WAR. For the most part though, the VC picks for 2B are rather weak, though they got it right with Gordon.
VEB 2B – Roberto Alomar, Craig Biggio, Rod Carew, Frankie Frisch, Charlie Gehringer, Rogers Hornsby, Nap Lajoie, Joe Morgan, Jackie Robinson, Ryne Sandberg, LOU WHITAKER (10)
Given a second shot, I’m sure you guys would elect Eddie Collins. I think I expressed this in the original post, but I am genuinely surprised Alomar made it. He’s not necessarily fringe, but something about his 63 WAR got him votes where it failed others. It helps that most people watched him play of course. And I already got my answer: Lou Whitaker, has for some reason not made the real Hall, but that wrong has been corrected by VEB.
3rd base – Frank Baker, Adrian Beltre, Wade Boggs, George Brett, Chipper Jones, George Kell, Freddie Lindstrom, Eddie Mathews, Paul Molitor, Brooks Robinson, Scott Rolen, Ron Santo, Mike Schmidt, Pie Traynor
Baker making it was a surprise given he didn’t have a high WAR total and retired in 1922, though I guess if your nickname is Home Run Baker, that gives you a leg up. If you want to know how insanely strict the 3B standards are, the VEB list is very, very close to the real Hall of Fame. Not true for any other position.
VEB 3rd base – Frank Baker, Adrian Beltre, Wade Boggs, KEN BOYER, George Brett, Chipper Jones, Eddie Mathews, Paul Molitor, Brooks Robinson, Scott Rolen, Ron Santo, Mike Schmidt (12)
This is a flawless list guys. No complaints. There are a bunch of 3B who have an argument, and to be honest while I very much agree with the Boyer pick, those guys should pr
SS – Luis Aparicio, Luke Appling, Dave Bancroft, Ernie Banks, Lou Boudreau, Joe Cronin, Travis Jackson, Derek Jeter, Barry Larkin, Rabbit Maranville, Pee Wee Reese, Cal Ripken Jr., Phil Rizzuto, Joe Sewell, Ozzie Smith, Joe Tinker, Alan Trammell, Arky Vaughan, Honus Wagner, Bobby Wallace, Robin Yount
This is such a strange list. The writers did not have a handle on how to vote for shortstops. I would have bet money Rabbit Maranville was a Veterans Committee choice. Meanwhile, Pee Wee Reese, Alan Trammell, and Arky Vaughan is a crazy trio to not elect. I’ll give them a pass on Bobby Wallace, he retired almost 30 years before the Hall of Fame even existed. Only the inner circle guys really got voted in by the writers from his era and he’s not really that.
VEB SS – Ernie Banks, Lou Boudreau, Derek Jeter, Barry Larkin, Pee Wee Reese, Cal Ripken Jr., Ozzie Smith, Alan Trammell, Arky Vaughan, Honus Wagner, Robin Yount (11)
Luke Appling and Joe Cronin deserve their flowers and I honestly think Bobby Wallace too. In my opinion anyway. I’m honestly still having trouble over the writers not voting in Pee Wee Reese, that dude missed three prime seasons to World War II.
LF – Lou Brock, Goose Goslin, Rickey Henderson, Ralph Kiner, Heine Manush, Joe Medwick, Minnie Minoso, Tim Raines, Jim Rice, Al Simmons, Willie Stargell, Zack Wheat, Billy Williams, Ted Williams, Carl Yastrzemski
Goslin snuck under the radar in real life too. He did miss by literally 1.1 percentage points though. I’m pretty sure Medwick and Brock – no hate – would not be voted in by you guys were they not Cardinals. I am surprised Medwick was a writer’s pick, but mostly because he was elected in that same period with a lot of Veterans Committee Cardinals picks.
VEB LF – Lou Brock, Rickey Henderson, Joe Medwick, Tim Raines, Al Simmons, Willie Stargell, Billy Williams, Ted Williams, Carl Yastrzemski (9)
Cardinals fans, here’s a fascinating thing: you guys…. have kind of a Cubs bias in the voting! I hadn’t quite figured that out, but as I’m going through this, the theoretically fringe Cubs players seem to make it and in general seem to have higher percentage points than comparable players. I don’t think Billy Williams makes it were he an Oriole. Fun wrinkle!
CF – Richie Ashburn, Earl Averrill, Max Carey, Ty Cobb, Earle Combs, Joe DiMaggio, Larry Doby, Ken Griffey Jr., Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Kirby Puckett, Edd Roush, Duke Snider, Tris Speaker, Lloyd Waner, Hack Wilson
Jesus, BBWAA. You can only make the Hall of Fame if you are inner circle when you play CF. Unless you’re Kirby Puckett I guess. And Duke Snider, who isn’t inner circle, but an obvious pick. And it took him 11 tries! Honestly, it’s weird having not witnessed the era, that Puckett of all people bucked the trend.
VEB CF – CARLOS BELTRAN, Ty Cobb, Joe DiMaggio, JIM EDMONDS, Ken Griffey Jr., Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Duke Snider, Tris Speaker (9)
Boy, you’d almost understand Edmonds not making the Hall if he’s compared to the rest of these guys. That is an insane lineup of Hall of Famers. Also yes, VEB voted in Carlos Beltran in the most recent Hall of Fame ballot.
RF – Hank Aaron, Roberto Clemente, Sam Crawford, Kiki Cuyler, Andre Dawson, Elmer Flick, Vladmir Guerrero, Harry Heilmann, Harry Hooper, Reggie Jackson, Al Kaline, Chuck Klein, Tony Oliva, Mel Ott, Sam Rice, Frank Robinson, Babe Ruth, Eno Slaughter, Larry Walker, Paul Waner, Dave Winfield, Ross Youngs
I might be onto something with by Cubs bias. Andre Dawson and Dave Winfield both have 59 career fWAR. One of them was a Cub. He made it. The other was not a Cub. He did not make it.
VEB RF – Hank Aaron, Roberto Clemente, Andre Dawson, Reggie Jackson, Al Kaline, Mel Ott, Frank Robinson, Babe Ruth, Larry Walker, Paul Waner (10)
With the exception of Dawson, literally none of these guys are even fringe Hall of Famers.
RHP SP – Grover Alexander, Chief Bender, Bert Blyleven, Mordecai Brown, Jim Bunning, Jack Chesbro, Stan Covelski, Dizzy Dean, Don Dyrsdale, Red Faber, Bob Feller, Rollie Fingers, Bob Gibson, Burleigh Grimes, Jesse Haines, Roy Halladay, Waite Hoyt, Catfish Hunter, Ferguson Jenkins, Walter Johnson, Addie Ross, Jim Kaat, Bob Lemon, Ted Lyons, Greg Maddux, Juan Marichal, Pedro Martinez, Christy Mathewson, Joe McGinnity, Mike Mussina, Phil Niekro, Jim Palmer, Gaylord Perry, Robin Roberts, Red Ruffing, Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, John Smoltz, Don Sutton, Dazzy Vance, Ed Walsh, Vic Willis, Early Wynn, Cy Young
Pretty good list. I’m not sure what VEB has against Mike Mussina, but they’ve been he’s been on three ballots and failed all three times.
VEB RHP SP – Grover Alexander, Bert Blyleven, Dizzy Dean, Don Drysdale, Bob Feller, Bob Gibson, Roy Halladay, Ferguson Jenkins, Walter Johnson, Greg Maddux, Juan Marichal, Pedro Martinez, Christy Mathewson, Phil Niekro, Jim Palmer, Gaylord Perry, Robin Roberts, Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, John Smoltz, Cy Young (21)
Probably goes without saying, but no chance Dizzy Dean makes this Hall if he were on any other team. The votes were not forgiving for similar Hall of Fame peak, no longevity guys.
LHP SP – Steve Carlton, Whitey Ford, Tom Glavine, Lefty Gomez, Lefty Grove, Carl Hubbell, Randy Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Rube Marquard, Jack Morris, Hal Newhouser, Herb Pennock, Eddie Plank, Eppa Rixey, Warren Spahn, Rube Waddell
Understandably smaller list. Just a single Veteran’s Committee starting pitcher was elected to this VEB Hall. And Plank was only on Veterans Committee cause he retired in 1917, 19 years before the Hall of Fame existed.
VEB LHP SP – Steve Carlton, Tom Glavine, Lefty Grove, Carl Hubbell, Randy Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Eddie Plank, Warren Spahn. (8)
RP – Dennis Eckersley, Goose Gossage, Trevor Hoffman, Mariano Rivera, Lee Smith, Bruce Sutter, Hoyt Wilhelm
Just one Veterans Committee pick. Not looking forward to the year the VC gets relief happy, cause you know it’s gonna happen.
VEB RP: Dennis Eckersley, Mariano Rivera (2)
VEB mostly believes relievers don’t belong in the Hall. Even anti-relievers in the Hall people think Rivera deserves it though. And Eckersley ended up with a Hall of Fame SP WAR total.
Not sure what I’ll do moving forward, but I will be doing something else with this. Fun exercise for me and interesting to see VEB collectively have voting trends that I could almost predict. Which is interesting because this has been spread across a few years and I’m guessing who voted varied based on when I posted it or their interest in voting, say, Jim Edmonds in.